Curse

Del · Mar 02, 2010, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-Bigz

The only thing that was actual feedback or in reply to an actual problem mentioned or could even remotely be considered on topic was the last quote.

But yes, I'm spewing mindless bullshit all throughout this thread, and your responses make you seem so mature.

Quote someones whole post instead of just picking out what you want to try and criticize to give other people a biased opinion of someone.

Someone bring thread back on topic, or in b4 lock.

you just keep saying dumb shit like this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-Bigz

And on a side note: HOW DARE YOU EXPECT PEOPLE TO CHANGE THEIR BUILDS FOR UPDATED METAGAME?!?! HOW DARE YOU?!?! GET OUT! YOUR BAD AT GUILD WURS!

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Originally Posted by The-Bigz

Not saying some stuff isn't OP, just saying that a simple holy veil/interrupt/cure hex could own most of the builds out there, but most people are too lazy to consider that nowadays and would rather run something else.

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Originally Posted by The-Bigz

To normal nerf this crowd: This is the first metagame update in 6+ months, and its causing people to be more aware of hexing and whatnot, and also causing monks to not be able to /redbar through everything in the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-Bigz

Do not go off topic and /rage about hexway because your losing an arguement that is basically toned down to 'Seeping Wound, a 1/4th cast 1/2 range ELITE hex spell causes 50% reduced movement speed and does a maximum of 175 damage over 7 seconds is OP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-Bigz

You could literally just sit there and spam it with a skill like Deadly Haste, and you would still pump out more dps than is necessary to pressure some teams out, because it is nearly impossible to do any sort of PvP where there is not condition application.

If a team is so shitter that 150-200 damage per 6-10 seconds destroys them because they dont have Hex Removal or Dismiss condition/Mending Touch, they DESERVED to be blown up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-Bigz

A monk can easily outheal DPS in this game, if not without anything extra, balanced stance none the less, or even guardian. Both of which help prevent KD's, extra damage taken, and give the monk time to use skills. I have played a monk, I have played an assasin.

doesn't seem as if you even consider the fact that in these situations you have more to deal with than a single sin.

Morphy · Mar 03, 2010, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-Bigz

You are talking about Broken Ascent and Fail Guild vs Even Moar Fail guild. I am talking about RA. I have mentioned multiple times in multiple threads that I do not participate in Failway and monthly Ass Ticklings. You have not posted one important thing about anything other then rigged 8 vs 8 is even more rigged now. I do not care, which means that I am not participating in the conversation anymore, do not say something is wrong with me because I refuse to get /raged on by people with the mental capacity of a 3 year old.

There are Multiple builds in the metagame before and after this update that did own and will still own Seeping Wound, which is what this thread was based upon. Do not go off topic and /rage about hexway because your losing an arguement that is basically toned down to 'Seeping Wound, a 1/4th cast 1/2 range ELITE hex spell causes 50% reduced movement speed and does a maximum of 175 damage over 7 seconds is OP. Nerf it now, no I will not give any options as to what I think it should be changed to, no I will not consider running a different build or changing for metagame, no I will not admit there is faults in my arguements. Bigz is bad at the game because he brings block stances and knows how to predict very predictable metagame.'

I only replied to this because you implied that I was a mental retard for refusing to argue about a mute point. GOGOGOGOGO flame me.

Big Words and mute text walls you have padawan, but lacking in maturity you are. Teach you I shall, Young Jedi.

So I herd RA is the highest form of PvP? Doesn't matter, Seeping Wound is as imbalanced in RA (irrelevant area) as it is in GvG (relevant area). As I've said multiple times before, whether or not this skill can be countered or whatever is not relevant. This skill is mindless and therefore automatically imbalanced. It's that simple: all mindless skills are imbalanced, no exceptions. They're broken. I can even prove it to you, if you want me to.

You really seem to want me to give a proper function for this skill. Fine, I'll try. In its current form, Seeping Wound is a pressure skill. I think Assassins should work as a class somewhere between a Ranger and a Warrior, sacrificing high armor and pressure for strong survivability and mobility.

A pressure skill is therefore not something that fits in very well with that definition. For that reason, this skill should be either slightly weaker to compensate for breaking inter-class restrictions (like Bleeding on a Ranger should) or it should be reworked to a skill with an entirely different functionality. Since there is only so much skills that can fit into the Assassin niche I described I'll go with the first option.

In PvE, there is a pretty cool skill called Signet of Infection. Disease is an interesting Condition that is in essence a double edged sword. It can and will spread to your own party. Obviously, SoI would be an extremely overpowered skill in PvP in its current form. When compared to Rotting Flesh, it's just way too powerful. The skill can, however, be reworked into an elite for PvP. Since such a skill would break two inter-class restrictions if it had this function (non-Necromancer Disease and pressure on an Assassin), the skill has to be conditional and elite. Seeping Wound, that used to trigger on Poison and Bleeding, is therefore a perfect candidate for a skill like this. This makes the final skill:

Seeping Wound: 5e 1c 5r, "Elite Spell. If target foe is under the effect of Bleeding or Poison, that foe suffers from Disease (0-15 seconds)."

Duration can be hardcored to 10 and this skill can be given a 50% fail chance with Critical Strikes <5. It can also be increased and scaled with Deadly Arts. It should, however, be limited to Assassins.

Happy now?

Selket · Mar 03, 2010, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Seeping wound really is only considered broken because its the only build that's viable. If any form of shadow prison still existed -- or even any good assassin elite that can be used for doing damage, seeping wound would be in line.

The real issue, to me, was that seeping wound in its original form made it through the test krewe when it was so blatantly above above and beyond every other skill change, so much so that it had to be adjusted within 24 hours of it hitting live. I'm not sure what they're doing on the krewe, but its clearly not working.

The-Bigz · Mar 03, 2010, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selket

Seeping wound really is only considered broken because its the only build that's viable. If any form of shadow prison still existed -- or even any good assassin elite that can be used for doing damage, seeping wound would be in line.

The real issue, to me, was that seeping wound in its original form made it through the test krewe when it was so blatantly above above and beyond every other skill change, so much so that it had to be adjusted within 24 hours of it hitting live. I'm not sure what they're doing on the krewe, but its clearly not working.

Thats what I said. Palm Strike for Linebacking and melee, Seeping Wound to kill spellcasters and rangers.

At Morphy: If you have any idea how stupid it is that you said disease for 10-15 seconds should be an elite, then kudos to you. A Virulence sin has been created for through signet of corruptions function. If you have any idea how stupid it is that you said Assasins, AKA Ninjas, AKA Single target killers both in game, and in functionality/remembrance in real life, should sacrifice High Armor and PRESSURE, so they can....What was it again? Be mobile and survive more? Sins mobility goes to deaths charge, return, deaths retreat, sp/dp, AoD, and dash. Their survival goes to Flashing Blades, Critical Defenses, and some of the shittiest damage and armor in the game in terms of melee to boot, with not even a single viable team spike like r-spike that your beloved rangers have.

Because factions introduced Assasins, and immediatly picked them out for single target spiking, it is obvious what Arena Net put them there for. If you cant deal with it, then run a bar of full interrupts like tease/psychic instability as elites and then cry of frustration, use a bow to d-shot shit, and completely shut down those shitter 123456 sins that you hate so much.

You showed me how much knowledge you have in the game by saying GvG is relevant. A random arena where you can't run rigged builds and just play basically 1 vs 1 on who gets pinged or spiked, and have nobody to depend on but yourself, and you alone actually make a large difference in the final score. Yea, that definately takes no skill. BRB Farming gold cape with 123 vent spike. Seeping Wound was initially nerfed and looked at for RA. Thats why its relevant to this thread.

EDIT: After we are done tweaking to Morphy's dream 8 vs 8 super ultra rigged builds, can we tweak to my dreams? I have lots of ideas and ways to change the functionality in every way of every class, and how I see them should be the end all.

Plz r3zp0nd 4-n37.

Morphy · Mar 03, 2010, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-Bigz

At Morphy: If you have any idea how stupid it is that you said disease for 10-15 seconds should be an elite, then kudos to you. A Virulence sin has been created for through signet of corruptions function.

Virulence also has a 15 second recharge, as opposed to my Seeping Wound's 5. Stop comparing apples and oranges. Being able to inflict Disease on a 5 second recharge with only 1 cast time is strong and definitely elite-worthy, ESPECIALLY on an Assassin.

Quote:

If you have any idea how stupid it is that you said Assasins, AKA Ninjas, AKA Single target killers both in game, and in functionality/remembrance in real life, should sacrifice High Armor and PRESSURE, so they can....What was it again? Be mobile and survive more? Sins mobility goes to deaths charge, return, deaths retreat, sp/dp, AoD, and dash. Their survival goes to Flashing Blades, Critical Defenses, and some of the shittiest damage and armor in the game in terms of melee to boot, with not even a single viable team spike like r-spike that your beloved rangers have.

I don't know if you ever saw an AoD Assassin in action but if you didn't, the build they were running can be found here: http://www.gw-memorial.net/nav/b_pase_i.php?id=31. As you can see, AoD and Dark Escape (not mentioned by you, I wonder why) serve as skills that provides survivability and mobility while Shadow Refuge (also not mentioned) is used as a self-heal to decrease pressure on the Monks and increase split power. Falling -> Twisting Fangs makes sure the Assassin is still capable of spiking, only their pressure is lost.

Why did I bring this up? Well, AoD Assassins, although annoyingly hard to counter, were the closest to a balanced build observed on an Assassin. It took skill to play, it required insight. AoD Assassins, as they were in a non-powercreeped meta, could be fixed rather easily: Just make the Assassin more vulnerable while in AoD, much like frenzy.

Assassins are 'stealth' characters: they should be able to take down single targets and move around the map quickly. They shouldn't be able to put constant pressure on an opposing team, which is exactly what the current Seeping Wound does, or be able to stay in the heat of battle for long amounts of time. These are things that won't fit into a format like RA because these battles are straight Death Matches.

Oh and also, I have a firm stance against team spikes. Since you seem to think Assassins not having one is a bad thing, that just proves exactly how bad you are. Team spikes that consist of many of the same profession, ESPECIALLY if that spike is ranged, are one of the worst gimmicks in the game.

Quote:

Because factions introduced Assasins, and immediatly picked them out for single target spiking, it is obvious what Arena Net put them there for. If you cant deal with it, then run a bar of full interrupts like tease/psychic instability as elites and then cry of frustration, use a bow to d-shot shit, and completely shut down those shitter 123456 sins that you hate so much.

Again, using my supposed incapability to counter shitter 123456 sins as an argument. Stop bringing this up. I have no problems neutralizing these idiots. My point is that builds like this take no skill and are thus imbalanced, for which reason the skills in it need to be reworked.

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You showed me how much knowledge you have in the game by saying GvG is relevant. A random arena where you can't run rigged builds and just play basically 1 vs 1 on who gets pinged or spiked, and have nobody to depend on but yourself, and you alone actually make a large difference in the final score. Yea, that definately takes no skill. BRB Farming gold cape with 123 vent spike. Seeping Wound was initially nerfed and looked at for RA. Thats why its relevant to this thread.

I'd love to see you try. You can come back when you "farmed" your gold cape. GvG, when properly balanced, is far more strategic than RA is. GvG isn't a straight Death Match like RA, there is more to it. You have to protect your Guild Lord, there is such a thing as a "flag" that needs to be brought to a stand and there are multiple roads to your opponent's base, enabling splits. All these add strategical value to the format, strategical value that RA lacks.

People use shitter builds in GvG, but that's no argument that proves why GvG itself would be bad, which is simply untrue. After all, people use shitter builds in RA, does that mean RA is bad? RA is a good place to train and get better at the game without having to worry about rating drop. That is all. It won't make you better at teamplay, knowing when to split or positioning yourself well. Balancing the game around RA is stupid and nobody in his right mind thinks it should be done like that.

GvG is a teambased area rather than a random one, which is also what makes it more strategic than RA. Working together well is an important part of GvG, a part that one won't see in RA. You sound like someone who thinks 1v1 scrimmages are cool. Let me tell you something: The smaller a party gets, the more stone-paper-scissors the game gets because you can only take counters for so much skills, making it mostly reliant on luck.

AndroBubbles · Mar 04, 2010, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-Bigz

Thats what I said. Palm Strike for Linebacking and melee, Seeping Wound to kill spellcasters and rangers.

Seeping Wound does both, and is significantly stronger than palm strike.

Quote:

Because factions introduced Assasins, and immediatly picked them out for single target spiking, it is obvious what Arena Net put them there for. If you cant deal with it, then run a bar of full interrupts like tease/psychic instability as elites and then cry of frustration, use a bow to d-shot shit, and completely shut down those shitter 123456 sins that you hate so much.

Making every person in the game have to spec against a single build is wrong, and proves that this elite is OP.

Quote:

You showed me how much knowledge you have in the game by saying GvG is relevant. A random arena where you can't run rigged builds and just play basically 1 vs 1 on who gets pinged or spiked, and have nobody to depend on but yourself, and you alone actually make a large difference in the final score. Yea, that definately takes no skill. BRB Farming gold cape with 123 vent spike. Seeping Wound was initially nerfed and looked at for RA. Thats why its relevant to this thread.

Seeping Wound was most certainly not designed purely with RA in mind, or else it wouldn't be able to be abused so heavily in other areas of PvP. In GvG, there is much more than 321 vent spiking. A gold trim guild usually has decent players. Even if you're running a good spike build, your backline and midline have to be able to effectively run their defensive roles while you prepare for your next spike. A good spike with a horrid backline will still lose. Rawr got their gold trim for being able to effectively play a defensive game while spiking the shit out of their opponents.

Stop trolling.

Killed u man · Mar 04, 2010, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

As I've said multiple times before, whether or not this skill can be countered or whatever is not relevant. This skill is mindless and therefore automatically imbalanced. It's that simple: all mindless skills are imbalanced, no exceptions. They're broken. I can even prove it to you, if you

No sin build really requires skill, nor ever did. There never was any penalties for being "bad" at a bar, as opposed to ranger, mesmer, warrior and monk classes which severely disbenefit yourself or your team when played bad.

A sin was always an "effective" (Though severely below any par with warriors) buttonbasher, and never required skill. That's a mechanical flaw, and not a build/skill flaw.

In my other thread: "Reworking of Sins, dervishes and warriors", I explained exactly why every sin build gets frowned uppon, nerfed and eventually the intire sinclass becomes useless. (As it is now. BB was the last viable sinbuild, with that gone, Seeping Wound *Which is bound to get nerfed soon* is the last semi-effective resort)

So saying all mindless skills are broken is saying just as much as the Sin class is broken, which is true. Though nerfing these skills simply isn't an option, unless removing sins out of PvP is your goal. Alot of people gave up on sins, or never even gave them a try, a long time ago, and refuse to settle with a golden middle-road.

I however do and as I explained in that thread believe the combo sin is something that inherently ISN'T FLAWED, only the "spike sin" is. (Which up to today is all sins have been)

Trinity Fire Angel · Mar 04, 2010, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selket

Seeping wound really is only considered broken because its the only build that's viable. If any form of shadow prison still existed -- or even any good assassin elite that can be used for doing damage, seeping wound would be in line.

what do you mean? Shadow Prison still owns (however its nothing like the old version with black spider strike and the old HoTO). Its just that no-one uses it because the meta changed to Hidden Caltrops before it was nerfed to disable non-assassin skills (bye bye IAS) and then Palm Strike, etc etc. Try using the Shadow Prison build some time its just not as instagib as it used to be.

Seeping wound should be brought into line the same way that Hidden Caltrops were. There should be no instagib builds in the game. full stop.

FoxBat · Mar 04, 2010, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trinity Fire Angel

what do you mean? Shadow Prison still owns. Its just that no-one uses it because the meta changed to Hidden Caltrops before it was nerfed to disable non-assassin skills (bye bye IAS) and then Palm Strike,

The aftercast makes SP garbage, and the first nerf to caltrops (reducing duration) made sins running it garbage. People quit running sins seriously long before the non-sin clause took caltrops off of flaggers and illusion spammers.

Wastrels is arguably better than SP ever was what with 3 knockdowns, yet thanks to aftercast it ONLY works on split for catching someone when a monk isn't around. You'll never kill anything at the stand.

Trinity Fire Angel · Mar 04, 2010, 08:52 PM // 20:52

^^ GvG you may be correct, i haven;t played too much GvG.

I spent all my time playing HB which was pretty much Monks vs Sins. So i guess i have a different perspective of the power of these skills and the prevelance of the assassin where either monks or assassins were pretty much OP in hero battles. Shadow Prison was pretty much the skill even after a series of nerfs because the aftercast didn;t matter too much as long as you had good micro on your heros.

byteme! · Mar 04, 2010, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Looks like the community is up to it's old tricks again. Since the update dealt with some of our most hated/broken/abused skills we're back to finding other things to bitch about. Some things never change. People suck.

The-Bigz · Mar 05, 2010, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Mods deleted my response to you on your last post Morphy, which is a sign that they dont want us argueing over this anymore.

To all those that took the time to read Del, Morphy, and me argueing, Theory Crafting wins. We all found a way to stroke our e-peens and make ourselves look good, rather then bring about an actual solution. At least I had some lulz, if nothing else.

Vote for Lock.